Subject: Oil for deep fryer (French Fries)
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
From: DD at chi-town (Alan)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:22:53 -0800
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I'm getting my wife a deep fryer for Christmas, so that I can make French (Freedom) Fries with it.
What is a good recipe for the oil?
We've never owned a deep fryer before. How long can you keep the oil before dumping it? Do you need to keep it in the fridge?
I loved the old MacDonald's French Fries. I've heard that some sort of pork sauce was an ingredient in their oil before Mulsims complained. Now their fries are rather tasteless. Does anyone have an idea what their recipe was?
From: Christopher Green (cj.green at worldnet.att.net)
Date: 11 Dec 2004 21:13:53 -0800
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Any edible fat or oil that is stable at the temperatures used for deep fried frying (365-375 F) will do. Olive oil makes wonderful fries, but needs much care, as you are working very close to its smoke point.
McDonalds used to use beef tallow in their French Fries. This was not popular with people of Hindu or Sikh background. A McDonalds was trashed in Bombay when it was revealed that McDonalds had been wrongly passing off their fries as vegetarian. McDonalds settled several cases out of court in 2002 with defrauded customers for $10 million. (Also see the history of the Sepoy Rebellion for just how unpopular this sort of thing can become.)
From: Don Wiss
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 07:07:23 -0500
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Christopher Green wrote:
>McDonalds used to use beef tallow in their French Fries. This was not
>popular with people of Hindu or Sikh background. A McDonalds was
>trashed in Bombay when it was revealed that McDonalds had been wrongly
>passing off their fries as vegetarian. McDonalds settled several cases
>out of court in 2002 with defrauded customers for $10 million.
Wrong. They stopped using beef tallow many years ago. But when they switched to vegetable oils they continued to use flavorings, and these flavorings were beef based. Presumably these flavorings where hydrolyzed beef protein.
From: elaine (sass at ca.inter.net)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:26:05 -0500
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I got a deep fryer last year for Christmas - a big, clunky thing that takes up space and doesn't do a great job on fries. IMO a pot with oil and chip basket would do the job better.
Chips Courtesy of: Christine Cushing Live Episode: Golden Brown
Host: Christine Cushing
Add oil to a large heavy-bottomed pot (fill so oil comes 1/2 way up the pot). Heat oil to 320 degrees F. Working in small batches, blanche the chips until soft and cooked through but not browned, about 3 minutes. Make sure oil returns to 320 degrees F between batches. Drain on paper towels and let cool to room temperature.
Heat oil to 375 degrees F. and fry chips again in small batches until crisp and golden, about 1 to 2 minutes. Serve with fish and dip chips in hot curry sauce and garlic mayo. Cooking the chips twice will ensure they are golden brown and crispy on the outside.
From: Lucretia Borgia (LucretiaBorgia at florence.it)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:58:57 GMT
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elaine wrote:
>I got a deep fryer last year for Christmas - a big, clunky thing that takes
>up space and doesn't do a great job on fries. IMO a pot with oil and chip
>basket would do the job better.
Oil in the pot is the most common cause of a kitchen fire, the Fire Department continually warn against this method. I witnessed a demonstration of what happens when the fat in the pot ignites and have never used that method again, just too risky.
Sheena
From: Nancy Dooley (ndooley at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu)
Date: 13 Dec 2004 08:42:20 -0800
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Lucretia Borgia wrote:
> Oil in the pot is the most common cause of a kitchen fire, the Fire
> Department continually warn against this method. I witnessed a
> demonstration of what happens when the fat in the pot ignites and have
> never used that method again, just too risky.
I don't believe I've ever seen anything in the media about deep frying in a pot causing fires - unless the pot is untended. Only idiots would walk off and leave hot oil on an active burner.
I regularly do hush puppies, onion rings and rosettes (Scandinavian cookies) in hot oil in my deep electric frypan and have for decades, without incident. It helps to have a brain if one is cooking.
From: Dave Smith (adavid.smith at sympatico.ca)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:56:17 -0500
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Hahabogus wrote:
> It is never wise to gift your wife with things that you want to use.
> Or to gift your wife with required household equipment. (the snow tires
> I got her one year taught me that).
Not a problem if the snow tires are for my car. :-)
From: Peter Aitken (paitken at CRAPnc.rr.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:37:12 GMT
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DD at chi-town wrote:
> I loved the old MacDonald's French Fries. I've heard that some sort
> of pork sauce was an ingredient in their oil before Mulsims
> complained. Now their fries are rather tasteless. Does anyone have
> an idea what their recipe was?
I heard that McD's used to use beef fat for fries and changed to veg oil due to health concerns. One book I read said that horse fat makes the best fries, but I do not think it is available at the A&P! For home frying you can use essentially any vegegtable oil - canola, peanut, corn, safflower, etc. You can also use shortening (such as Crisco).
As for reusing oil, you'll get various opinions. You can certainly use it 2 or 3 times if you filter it and store it in a airtight container between uses. After that your fries will start to get that "greasy spoon diner" taste.
You may already know - best fries require 2 cookings. First you fry ar 325 until the potatoes are limp but not brown - 4 or 5 minutes. Then you drain them and set them aside for up to several hours. Just before serving you fry again at 375f until brown and crisp.
From: Bob (this one) (Bob at nospam.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 12:38:04 -0500
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> I heard that McD's used to use beef fat for fries and changed to veg oil due
> to health concerns.
They changed due to protest from the wonderfully well-informed public who thinks that all animal fat is a four-letter word.
> One book I read said that horse fat makes the best
> fries,
Perhaps Jeffrey Steingarten's book "The man who ate everything."
> As for reusing oil, you'll get various opinions. You can certainly use it 2
> or 3 times if you filter it and store it in a airtight container between
> uses. After that your fries will start to get that "greasy spoon diner"
> taste.
Greasy spoon diners get that greasy taste because they use the same oil for *weeks* of daily use in fryers that are on all day long. Usually, they don't filter, either.
Oils used for home frying get a tiny fraction of the usage time that restaurants do. The greater issue is rancidifying merely from time passed after being heated. You should be able to get at least a half-dozen uses with filtering and storage in a filled container (less room for oxygen in the container) in a cool, dark place. But the time elapsed between fryings is significant. The longer you go, the fewer uses you'll get. Heating the oils hastens rancidity, so you need to use it before it becomes rancid. Rancid oil won't hurt you - it's not toxic - but it sure doesn't taste good.
> You may already know - best fries require 2 cookings. First you fry ar 325
> until the potatoes are limp but not brown - 4 or 5 minutes. Then you drain
> them and set them aside for up to several hours. Just before serving you fry
> again at 375f until brown and crisp.
The classic technique. And if you cut them into thick slices rather than square cross sections, you get "pommes gonflees" or puffed potatoes where they inflate. Very cool to see and eat.
But here's another thing to think about that I wrote a while back:
"Try something that sounds utterly wrong. I was astounded the first time I did it. Cut your potatoes about 1.5 cm square and however long you want. Rinse them in cold water and dry well. Put them into cold oil. Room temperature oil. Turn the fryer on to 185°C. Every now and again, either gently stir them or shake the basket (if that's how you're doing them) to move them a bit and let all sides cook.
"I used just enough oil to fully cover since the potatoes shrink as they give off their water.
"A short while after the oil reaches temperature, the potatoes will be done. Takes a variable amount of time, but think in terms of maybe 15 to 20 minutes from the time you drop them into the oil, depending on amounts.
"I read this in a Jeffrey Steingarten book and it sounded silly. Tried it. The spuds were wonderful. Downside is that you can't do it twice in succession. Means that you need to make enough the first time around."
Pastorio
From: penmart01 at aol.como (Sheldon)
Date: 12 Dec 2004 17:54:31 GMT
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Peter Aitken writes:
>DD at chi-town wrote:
>> I loved the old MacDonald's French Fries.
Sorry, those are not french fried potatoes, those are fried potato sticks.
>As for reusing oil, you'll get various opinions.
>
>You may already know - best fries require 2 cookings. First you fry ar 325
>until the potatoes are limp but not brown - 4 or 5 minutes. Then you drain
>them and set them aside for up to several hours. Just before serving you fry
>again at 375f until brown and crisp.
Talk about opinion... I don't think so. Nathan's Famous *Coney Island* serves more french fried potatoes in any 24 hour period than any food joint anywhere serves all month, and Nathan's are cooked but once... all totally prepared on premises, from raw unpared spuds to finished fries... no pre-fried, no frozen crap, and definitely no skinny fast food sticks that have no potato flavor whatsoever, all yoose taste is grease... Nathan's are zoftig *potatoey* steamy HOT krinkle kuts... never bit into a *hot* fast fast food fry yet... Nathan's fries are steamy hot all the way through, actually gotta blow on em and take little test nibbles lest you burn your gut.... served directly from thr deep fried fryer, no keep warm lamps And fast food fries are pre-salted, that's what makes them limp and hold the grease... hardly anyone salts Nathan's fries, most don't even use ketchup, Nathan's fries are just plain good as is.
http://www.nathansfamous.com
From: Charles Gifford (taxicolor at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:33:05 GMT
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Peter Aitken wrote:
> I heard that McD's used to use beef fat for fries and changed to veg oil due
> to health concerns. One book I read said that horse fat makes the best
> fries, but I do not think it is available at the A&P! For home frying you
> can use essentially any vegegtable oil - canola, peanut, corn, safflower,
> etc. You can also use shortening (such as Crisco).
Peter is correct. McD used to use beef tallow and the fries were superb! They later went to a mixture of lard and vegetable shortening I understand (probably cost saving). Now they use flavorless veggie oil. The fries aren't worth eating now IMO. I've heard about the use of horse fat too Peter. As I remember the horse fat was being used in Belgium. I use peanut oil for most deep fat frying - chicken and pork still require lard though!
From: MJ (tmjo_97 at sympatico.ca)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:01:41 -0500
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What i find works best is crisco vegetable shortening... it melts when you use it and re hardens when it cools, which makes it easier to clean out..you can change it whenever you notice that your food has an old grease taste. Also depending what you are frying in it will depend on how long the oil will last.
Hope this helps..
From: Bob (this one) (Bob at nospam.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 01:35:34 -0500
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MJ wrote:
> What i find works best is crisco vegetable shortening... it melts when you
> use it and re hardens when it cools, which makes it easier to clean out..
A solid is easier to clean out than a liquid that can be simply poured out?
Right.
Pastorio
From: MJ (tmjo_97 at sympatico.ca)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:48:44 -0500
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> A solid is easier to clean out than a liquid that can be simply poured
> out?
Well the deepfryer i have does not have an insert to remove so pouring it out is a pain..the oil spills all down the side of it and i hate cleaning a greasy mess so i much rather just scrape out the shortening than have to deal with the mess..
From: penmart01 at aol.como (Sheldon)
Date: 13 Dec 2004 14:50:29 GMT
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MJ writes:
>Well the deepfryer i have does not have an insert to remove so pouring it
>out is a pain..the oil spills all down the side of it and i hate cleaning a
>greasy mess so i much rather just scrape out the shortening than have to
>deal with the mess..
Large (commercial) deep fryers are fitted with drain petcocks (no one is going to *pour* out the fat), often more than one so that a filtration unit can be fitted... but filtration units are costly plus they take up a lot of valuable kitchen space, and then the filtration unit also requires maintainence. So the vast majority of commercial kitchens use solid shortening in their deep fryers, which they periodically drain into a large pot and set into the walk-in reefer. As it solidifys the particulates settle to the bottom, then it's a simple matter to scoop back all into the now cleaned deep fryer except for the very bottom portion containing the schmutz.
Solid shortening is also preferred as their is no chance of accidental spills... at home, by placing your used solid shortening into your freezer permits keeping it for up to a year, and not having to deal with accidental spills.
From: Nancy Dooley (ndooley at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu)
Date: 14 Dec 2004 07:55:28 -0800
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Bob (this one) wrote:
> A solid is easier to clean out than a liquid that can be simply poured
> out?
I bet the poster meant it was easier to dispose of - liquid oil is a PITA to discard, whereas a semi-solid mass of shortening isn't.
From: Bob (this one) (Bob at nospam.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:26:50 -0500
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Nancy Dooley wrote:
> I bet the poster meant it was easier to dispose of - liquid oil is
> a PITA to discard, whereas a semi-solid mass of shortening isn't.
Liquid oil goes tidily into a jug, bottle, can, bucket, etc. with (or without) a funnel. Google funnels.
They're new, you know.
From: cam.barr at beer.com
Date: 13 Dec 2004 07:33:40 -0800
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DD at chi-town wrote:
> We've never owned a deep fryer before. How long can you keep the oil
> before dumping it? Do you need to keep it in the fridge?
Oil? Oil of pork (pastry lard) cooks hot without smoking, is cheap, and stores well in the fridge after filtering. I get dozens uses out of mine before it needs replacing. I filter it through paper towel and store it in a big mason jar. I nuke it for 2 minutes to pour it out of the jar when I need it.