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Subject: REC: German Potato Salad
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking

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From: kilikini 
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:28:27 GMT
--------
Sorry for the post, but my mom is tossing out my childhood recipes left and
right (God only knows why!), so at least if I post this, I know that I can
always Google it if I need it!  And I'll need it in about 4 weeks.  :~)

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Grandma C's German Potato Salad

Ingredients:

2 quarts red potatoes, peeled
9 slices fried bacon
1 cup chopped onion
1/2 tsp. bacon drippings
2 Tbl. sugar
2 Tbl. flour
2 tsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
1/2 tsp. celery seed
1 cup water
2/3 cup white or cider vinegar

Directions:

1. Boil potatoes, then slice when done and cooled.  Set aside or put into a
bowl.
2. Take the chopped onion and cook over low direct heat using the bacon
drippings.
3. Mix sugar, flour, salt, pepper and celery seed together.  Blend into
onion saute'.
4. When onions are wilted, pour in the water and vinegar.  Stir mixture
until it boils for about 1 minute.
5. Pour onion and vinegar "dressing" over sliced potatoes.  Crumble the
bacon slices over potatoes.  Lightly fold everything in together.
6. Garnish with bacon, egg and/or parsley.

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From: Wayne Boatwright 
Date: 17 May 2006 14:10:56 +0200
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I love German potato salad!

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From: kilikini 
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:01:52 GMT
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> I love German potato salad!

I do too, Wayne, and I have never had a better recipe than this one.  If you
do an online search for German Potato Salad, all you get are recipes with
mayo and mustard.  Huh?  That's not supposed to be in there!   This recipe
is the real deal from my German grandmother Esther Berg Ciesemier.  (Last
name used to be Ziesemeier.)  Can't get more German than that!

============================

From: andrew queisser 
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:40:28 GMT
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kilikini wrote:
> I do too, Wayne, and I have never had a better recipe than this one.  If you
> do an online search for German Potato Salad, all you get are recipes with
> mayo and mustard.  Huh?  That's not supposed to be in there!   This recipe
> is the real deal from my German grandmother Esther Berg Ciesemier.  (Last
> name used to be Ziesemeier.)  Can't get more German than that!

Growing up in Germany I've had both creamy and vinegar dressing. In the 
southern parts it's common to use a mixture of broth, vinegar and oil. Bacon 
is optional as are lots of other additions. Mayo or dairy-based dressings 
are more common in the North.

So I'd say both are typical German but when I see "German potato salad" I 
expect the (superior!) version made without mayo.

By the way, many German potato salad makers I've talked to swear that the 
marinade must be poured over the potatoes when they are still hot which has 
something to do with absorption of the marinade into the potato. Others 
prefer using potatoes that were cooked the day before, go figure.

Really good with tarragon too...

============================

From: Wayne Boatwright 
Date: 18 May 2006 03:25:18 +0200
--------
Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it kilikini?
> I do too, Wayne, and I have never had a better recipe than this one.  If
> you do an online search for German Potato Salad, all you get are recipes
> with mayo and mustard.  Huh?  That's not supposed to be in there!   This
> recipe is the real deal from my German grandmother Esther Berg
> Ciesemier.  (Last name used to be Ziesemeier.)  Can't get more German
> than that! 

I've added your grandmother's name to the recipe.  I especially like the 
proportions of the ingredients in this.  Some German potato salads have a 
dressing/sauce that is too much like the consistency of gravy.  This looks 
perfect and well-balanced for flavor and consistency.  I'm really looking 
forward to making it.

Do you have a preference for white or cider vinegar in this?  I would be 
inclined to use cinder vinegar. 

============================

From: kilikini 
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:40:54 GMT
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> I've added your grandmother's name to the recipe.  I especially like the
> proportions of the ingredients in this.  Some German potato salads have a
> dressing/sauce that is too much like the consistency of gravy.  This looks
> perfect and well-balanced for flavor and consistency.  I'm really looking
> forward to making it.
>
> Do you have a preference for white or cider vinegar in this?  I would be
> inclined to use cinder vinegar.

Well, that's what I asked my mom and she said she always made the recipe
with white vinegar, but I'd be more inclined to use cider.  Try both (in
different batches, of course!) and see what you think is better.  Honestly,
this recipe spoiled me for any other German Potato salad; if it's not my
grandma's, fohgettaboutit.  :~)

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From: azazello[at]koroviev.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 23:47:59 +0200
--------
kilikini wrote:
> I do too, Wayne, and I have never had a better recipe than this one.  If you
> do an online search for German Potato Salad, all you get are recipes with
> mayo and mustard.  Huh?  That's not supposed to be in there!

Nonsense.  I see I have to repost some of what I posted before...  It is
ridiculous to call any dish (pan)-German, as implied by your all-caps in
"German Potato Salad" - there is no such thing, except in a very general
way.  There was no such thing as Germany until 1871, the Holy Roman
Empire notwithstanding... not even a customs union until something like
1835.  There was nothing more than a loose conglomeration of often
hostile mini-states with their own cultures and traditions.  The recipe
you posted appears to be a version of some of Bavarian potato salads,
particularly those from the Franken region.  Many other Bavarian salads,
particularly the Munich version, don't contain any bacon or other pork
products, but instead are prepared with a dressing made with broth, oil
and vinegar, and often also contain chives or pickles.  Such versions
are also popular in the neighbouring Swabian and Baden regions.  Moving
to the north, you will find mayo being used more often in potato salads.
Rhineland versions are made with homemade mayo.  The versions to the
north and east of the Rhine may or may not contain mayo and are often
more complicated and made with a lot of additional or alternative
ingredients, particularly mustard, sour cream, sausages, other meats,
herring, etc., often combining them.  The salads everywhere are served
warm or cold, with 'cold' generally meaning room temperature.  Those
with mayo are more often served cold - I've never seen a warm Rhineland
version.

============================

From: Wayne Boatwright 
Date: 23 May 2006 06:27:04 +0200
--------
Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Victor Sack? 
> Nonsense.  I see I have to repost some of what I posted before...  It is
> ridiculous to call any dish (pan)-German, as implied by your all-caps in
> "German Potato Salad" - there is no such thing, except in a very general
> way.  There was no such thing as Germany until 1871, the Holy Roman

Nonsense, indeed, Victor.  Neither Kilikini nor I live in Germany, nor do 
you live in the US.  In the US there is definitely a style of potato salad 
known as "German Potato Salad", with variations, of course.  You'll find 
recipes with that title in many American cookbooks.  It may not be 
authentic, it may not be German, but it is what is known here, like it or 
not.

It's probably not much different than "french fries" which are not French.  
Still, we eat and enjoy them.  

============================

From: kilikini 
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:42:45 GMT
--------
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> Nonsense, indeed, Victor.  Neither Kilikini nor I live in Germany, nor do
> you live in the US.  In the US there is definitely a style of potato salad
> known as "German Potato Salad", with variations, of course.  You'll find
> recipes with that title in many American cookbooks.  It may not be
> authentic, it may not be German, but it is what is known here, like it or
> not.

Thanks, Wayne.  Shoots, my recipe is from, actually, my great grandmother
who CAME from Germany.  I'm calling it authentic.  From what I understand,
it depends upon what part of the country you're from, North or South that
determines credibility.  This is a South German recipe.  Kind of like  Hoch
und Sudt Deutsch.

============================

From: Wayne Boatwright 
Date: 23 May 2006 23:26:19 +0200
--------
Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it kilikini?
> Thanks, Wayne.  Shoots, my recipe is from, actually, my great
> grandmother who CAME from Germany.  I'm calling it authentic.  From what
> I understand, it depends upon what part of the country you're from,
> North or South that determines credibility.  This is a South German
> recipe.  Kind of like  Hoch und Sudt Deutsch.

Your family's recipe is authentic in my book, too, kili.  Heck, I bet that
many people living in one part of Germany had no idea how something was
made in another part.  

============================

From: azazello[at]koroviev.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 23:57:40 +0200
--------
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> Nonsense, indeed, Victor.  Neither Kilikini nor I live in Germany,

Eh, do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  Kilikini may not
live in Germany, but she has very clearly indicated she was talking
about a particularly *German* recipe, coming from her *German*-born (and
presumably -bred) grandmother.  Here is her text again, to jog your
obviously failing memory:

> nor do 
> you live in the US.

Are you always that presumptuous?  I may not live in the USA now, but I
have lived there before, if only for a short time.  Yet, in that short
time, and even though I was in no position finacially to go out to eat
more than a couple of times every few months, I did see and taste a
couple of "German Potato Salads" made with either mustard or mayo (but
not both together, if memory serves).  What gives?  Not that it matters,
obviously.

>  In the US there is definitely a style of potato salad 
> known as "German Potato Salad", with variations, of course.  You'll find
> recipes with that title in many American cookbooks.  It may not be 
> authentic, it may not be German, but it is what is known here, like it or
> not.

And again, not that it matters in the least, you'll find recipes with
that title containing mustard or mayo just as easily - why, Kilikini
indicated as much above.  Here are some links, as an example:

  KATIE SCHROEDER'S
GERMAN POTATO SALAD (from General Motors Executive Dining Room -
1960's)... contains mayo and sour cream.

  
German Potato Salad, Bobby Flay... contains mustards seeds.

  House &
Garden, February 1957, Eloise Davison... contains mustard.


Warm German Potato Salad, Martha Stewart... contains mustard.

============================

From: Wayne Boatwright 
Date: 24 May 2006 03:37:47 +0200
--------
Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Victor Sack? 
> Eh, do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  Kilikini may not
> live in Germany, but she has very clearly indicated she was talking
> about a particularly *German* recipe, coming from her *German*-born (and
> presumably -bred) grandmother.  Here is her text again, to jog your
> obviously failing memory:

Yes, I read what she wrote and I understood it the first time.  I don't
think she was indicating that her grandmother's recipe was the *only*
recipe for "German Potato Salad".  
 
> Are you always that presumptuous?  I may not live in the USA now, but I
> have lived there before, if only for a short time.  Yet, in that short
> time, and even though I was in no position finacially to go out to eat
> more than a couple of times every few months, I did see and taste a
> couple of "German Potato Salads" made with either mustard or mayo (but
> not both together, if memory serves).  What gives?  Not that it matters,
> obviously.

It certainly does not matter  at all.

> And again, not that it matters in the least, you'll find recipes with
> that title containing mustard or mayo just as easily - why, Kilikini
> indicated as much above.  Here are some links, as an example:

No, it doesn't matter in the least.  FWIW, there are probably as many ways
to make potato salad as there are people who make them, regardless of
their country of origin.  I never said otherwise. 

You stay in the US was probably not long enough for you to realize that
most USians would identify a recipe like kilikini's as a typical "German
Potato Salad".  It's far more common than any other variation. 
 
============================

Subject: Re: REC: German Potato Salad
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
From: Tonya_049[at]webtv.net (ms. tonya)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 02:49:04 -0400
--------
Here is a german exchange recipe site.
I was taught to use chicken broth in german potato salad and was pleased
to see one of the recipes included that.

http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/6579/recipes/s1.html


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