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Subject: Vienna Potatoes
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking

============================

From: Jimmy Tango 
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:01:54 GMT
--------
Potatoes enough for family
1 10 1/2 oz can cream of mushroom soup
1 tsp onion, minced
1 tsp Worcestershire sauce
1 4 oz can tiny Vienna sausages

Boil potatoes until done or use canned potatoes.  Drain off liquid.  Stir in
rest of ingredients.  Heat until bubbly and serve.  For a large family,
increase the amount of Vienna sausages and add another can of cream of
mushroom soup.  Another version of this recipe is to combine all ingredients
with the exception of potatoes.  Serve over hot instant mashed potatoes or
over toast or hot biscuits.

============================

From: jacqui{JB} 
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:44:18 +0200
--------
I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in
Vienna.

============================

From: Steve J. 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 07:17:09 -0700
--------
jacqui{JB} wrote:
> I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in
> Vienna.

Do they offer Vienna sausages in Vienna? It would seem a travesty if
not.

============================

From: sackv[at]uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:40:07 +0200
--------
Steve J. wrote:
> Do they offer Vienna sausages in Vienna? It would seem a travesty if
> not.

In Vienna, they call 'em Frankfurter.  In Frankfurt, they call 'em
Wiener.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:51:43 -0600
--------
Victor Sack wrote:
> In Vienna, they call 'em Frankfurter.  In Frankfurt, they call 'em
> Wiener.

But Victor, the little sausages referred to (yes, for once I
do know what those are) probably don't meet EU/EA
definitions for either meat or sausages!

'Frankfurter' and 'Wiener' sausages are not related to the
canned travesty other than vaguely by shape LOL!

============================

From: sackv[at]uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:30:27 +0200
--------
Arri London wrote:
> 'Frankfurter' and 'Wiener' sausages are not related to the
> canned travesty other than vaguely by shape LOL!

Heh!  The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in
natural casings.  No circumcision for sausages!  On the other hand, I
did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas.  Also, there
are jarred sausages in brine (mostly BockwŘrste) here, too.  They are
always in natural casings and can be good.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:49:19 -0600
--------
Victor Sack wrote:
> Heh!  The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in
> natural casings.  No circumcision for sausages!  On the other hand, I
> did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas.  Also, there
> are jarred sausages in brine (mostly BockwŘrste) here, too.  They are
> always in natural casings and can be good.

LOL! I used to buy those jarred sausages in London
sometimes. Not bad and they were quite cheap. Although my
favourite cheap sausages were always the Herta frankfurters.

There are some good hot dogs to be had in the US, but most
of the supermarket ones are dismal.

============================

From: sackv[at]uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:35:09 +0200
--------
Arri London wrote:
>  Although my
> favourite cheap sausages were always the Herta frankfurters.

I don't think I've seen them here.  There are quite a few different
Herta sausages here, but unfortunately not their great garlic ones.
They seem to be marketed in France only.  :-(

============================

From: Alan Zelt 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:58:42 GMT
--------
Victor Sack wrote:
> Heh!  The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in
> natural casings.  No circumcision for sausages!  On the other hand, I
> did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas.  Also, there
> are jarred sausages in brine (mostly BockwŘrste) here, too.  They are
> always in natural casings and can be good.

Sigh. This discussion got me boiled up thinking about coming home after
a few days on the Prairie with whatshisname, oh yeah, Harry. I so very
much wanted to bring back some really good pork products. But, what with
our border Nazis looking for terrorists and mad cows, I figured they
would have thought that I was trying to poison all people in Washington
if I brought back some sausage.

Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese
from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they
don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and
Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the
Box. Am I missing something?

============================

From: sackv[at]uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:35:11 +0200
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Sigh. This discussion got me boiled up thinking about coming home after
> a few days on the Prairie with whatshisname, oh yeah, Harry. I so very
> much wanted to bring back some really good pork products. But, what with
> our border Nazis looking for terrorists and mad cows, I figured they
> would have thought that I was trying to poison all people in Washington
> if I brought back some sausage.

I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in
imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death.  In any
case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no
wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders...   Happily, there
seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American
food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically
engineered...

============================

From: Alan Zelt 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 02:18:21 GMT
--------
Victor Sack wrote:
> I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in
> imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death.  In any
> case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no
> wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders...   Happily, there
> seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American
> food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically
> engineered...

The one foodstuff that I usually bring accross if coming late May is
Copper River salmon.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:02:11 +0200
--------
Victor Sack wrote:
> I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in
> imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death.  In any
> case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no
> wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders...   Happily, there
> seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American
> food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically
> engineered...

If it's properly processed (ie really well cooked) then there is normally 
little problem, it's the occasions where the foofdstuff is raw or just 
'done a bit' which can harbour diseases. AS I said, note the foot and mouth 
disease outbreak in the UK caused by just such an incident (iirc).

============================

From: Alan Zelt 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:54:46 GMT
--------
Tim wrote:
> If it's properly processed (ie really well cooked) then there is normally
> little problem, it's the occasions where the foofdstuff is raw or just
> 'done a bit' which can harbour diseases. AS I said, note the foot and mouth
> disease outbreak in the UK caused by just such an incident (iirc).

Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

============================

From: Benzol 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:51:15 +0930
--------
Its not the potato its the soil on pototo. Sausages that  are raw and have
been smoked are not necessarily cooked. Therefore the meat may still be raw
in part and able to carry disease.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:11:23 +0200
--------
Benzol wrote:
> Its not the potato its the soil on pototo.

And plants are controled as well, for example the introducion of colorado 
beetle onto the European mainland...."but i'm only bringing a plant for my 
granny's garden".  Tim.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:07:06 +0200
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

Yes, that as well, but also the fact that the food was contaminated and 
imported from India, where it's endemic. (unless the story's changed since 
I last heard), then fed to pigs in the swill.  But you don't actually have 
to feed the animals the infectious food, it's good enough for the farm 
worker to leave his half-eaten sausage sarnie around the animals for a bit - 
 close contact may well be enough.

And feeding waste food to pigs is common paractice, whether right or wrong. 
Do people feed animal parts to sheep anymore in the UK? Because quite a few 
of them were slaughtered too. But, as you have seen from the outbreak, that 
you only need *one* case to spread through the whole country like wildfire. 
There will always be people breaking regulations by feeding the odd bit of 
swill to a cow, we don't need thousands of other people breaking 
regualtions by bringing (potentially) infected food, soil or plants in.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:18:26 -0600
--------
Tim wrote:

> Yes, that as well, but also the fact that the food was contaminated and
> imported from India, where it's endemic. (unless the story's changed since
> I last heard), then fed to pigs in the swill.  But you don't actually have
> to feed the animals the infectious food, it's good enough for the farm
> worker to leave his half-eaten sausage sarnie around the animals for a bit -
>  close contact may well be enough.

Imported illegally. mind you.
 
> And feeding waste food to pigs is common paractice, whether right or wrong.
> Do people feed animal parts to sheep anymore in the UK? 

Not legally they don't. The practice was banned back in the
80s. That same practice was only banned in the US less than
five years ago.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:00:54 +0200
--------
Arri London wrote:
> Imported illegally. mind you.

I thought it was supposedly traced to some infected meat imported 
(illegally of course, and this is the point isn't it?) from India and 
thrown out from a chinese restaurant. Of course the dtory may have changed 
since then.

Exactly, using the same logic as people saying "I don't care about the 
regulations, I'm going to bring my sausages in anyway" isn't it?

============================

From: maxine in ri 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:03:03 -0400
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

I thought that was bovine spongiform encephalitis 
aka mad cow disease.  Foot & mouth is soil-born.  
Article in this month's Scientific American mentions 
that one outbreak of F&M in England was traced to a
dust cloud from Northern Africa.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:02:59 +0200
--------
maxine in ri wrote:
> I thought that was bovine spongiform encephalitis aka mad cow disease.  
> Foot & mouth is soil-born.  Article in this month's Scientific American 
> mentions that one outbreak of F&M in England was traced to a
> dust cloud from Northern Africa.

Yes, I think Arri's gettign confused, the FMD virus wasn't in the feed as 
such - rather in a small contaminant -it only needs one sausage, or half a 
pork chop...., and it can be carried via poorly treated meat products. 
Hence the regulations.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:44:00 -0600
--------
Tim wrote:
> Yes, I think Arri's gettign confused, the FMD virus wasn't in the feed as
> such - rather in a small contaminant -it only needs one sausage, or half a
> pork chop...., and it can be carried via poorly treated meat products.
> Hence the regulations.

I wasn't the slightest bit confused. The feed was
contaminated by illegally imported raw meat, apparently
known to be contaminated at source.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:54:21 +0200
--------
Arri London wrote:
> I wasn't the slightest bit confused. The feed was
> contaminated by illegally imported raw meat, apparently
> known to be contaminated at source.

Is it still the story that it was from some thrown-away (human)food left- 
overs? Imported meat product from India, via a chinese restaurant? That's 
the last story I can remember. Was it known to be infected at the time? Or 
later found to be have been infected?
If it was anything like that, then that is the whole point of stopping 
people bringing certain foodstuffs and plants into the country. Which was 
the bone of contention of this part of the thread, wasn't it?
You can't 100% stop people feeding the wrong things to animals, just as you 
can't stop people 100% from bringing certain products over borders, but you 
have to try, and regualtions that operate at 2 points is surely better than 
just at one.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:36:36 -0600
--------
Tim wrote:

> Is it still the story that it was from some thrown-away (human)food left-
> overs? Imported meat product from India, via a chinese restaurant? That's
> the last story I can remember. Was it known to be infected at the time? Or
> later found to be have been infected?

I'd have to look up the details again. At one point, the
farmer who bought the waste was thought to have known it was
contaminated.

> If it was anything like that, then that is the whole point of stopping
> people bringing certain foodstuffs and plants into the country. Which was
> the bone of contention of this part of the thread, wasn't it?

But is isn't the same thing at all is it? 
The Chinese restaurant imported raw meat illegally through
illegal channels and sold it on illegally. That is hardly
the same as someone bringing in (for their own consumptions)
cured sausages manufactured in inspected facilities bought
in supermarkets which must also pass inspections.
Do you really think the US has never been responsible for
contamination/disease elsewhere?
That's very naive. All sorts of insect pests and
undesireable plant pests have been introduced into Europe
from the US.  

> You can't 100% stop people feeding the wrong things to animals, just as you
> can't stop people 100% from bringing certain products over borders, but you
> have to try, and regualtions that operate at 2 points is surely better than
> just at one.

But the regulations never address such issues do they?
Making me a criminal for bringing in clean foods from
regulated sources won't stop introduction of pests in either
direction.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:58:33 +0200
--------
Arri London wrote:

> But is isn't the same thing at all is it? The Chinese restaurant imported 
> raw meat illegally through
> illegal channels and sold it on illegally. That is hardly
> the same as someone bringing in (for their own consumptions)
> cured sausages manufactured in inspected facilities bought
> in supermarkets which must also pass inspections.

I think it is.

> Do you really think the US has never been responsible for
> contamination/disease elsewhere?
> That's very naive.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I think that? That's very bad 
reading and comprehension.

> All sorts of insect pests and
> undesireable plant pests have been introduced into Europe
> from the US.

Of course. And the other way around and in all other directions too.
Despite some dramatic failiures, there are regulations (often broken by 
people who think they know better, or just couldn't care less) to try and 
stop this sort of thing happening too frequently.  Flushing of ships' tanks 
outside coastal waters for example, controll of imported foodstuffs, plants 
and animals (colorado beetle, rabies and grey squirrels anyone?). Why are 
individuals less guilty of similar crimes than the captain of a ship or 
import firm?

> But the regulations never address such issues do they?
> Making me a criminal for bringing in clean foods from
> regulated sources won't stop introduction of pests in either
> direction.

Yes they do. Or how would you like them to address the problem? Test every 
meat sandwich that's brought in? What about the people who are still going 
to say "I'm not declaring it, it's only a sandwhich". Problem remains. It's 
making you a criminal for bringing potentially dangerous foods.....just as 
a registered importer would.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:16:49 -0600
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

And the feed was imported illegally.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:56:16 +0200
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese
> from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they
> don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and
> Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the
> Box. Am I missing something?

What you're missing is that the regulations aren't there to protect *you* 
from E. coli infections or whatever, they're there to stop the import of 
infectious diseases for the livestock or crops - such as TB, FMD and so on. 
And there'S a political drive as well, of course to protect one's own 
producers. But that's the same everywhere.
Potentiall disease carrying raw food, as opposed to sterilised, no-danger- 
to-the-livestock processed food.
Makes sense really. You saw what happened withe the last outbreak of FMD in 
the UK.

============================

From: Arri London 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:21:20 -0600
--------
Alan Zelt wrote:
> Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese
> from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they
> don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and
> Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the
> Box. Am I missing something?

Nope. It's utterly unpatriotic to become sick from 'foreign'
organisms. Only homegrown ones are good enough.

The fears of infection from 'foreign' organisms must be
hyped up to protect American agriculture from outsiders. Of
course there would be occasional slipups if those delicious
goodie were allowed in legally. Given the magnitude of the
'smuggling' that goes on and the lack of vicious outbreaks
of anything but domestic illnesses, it does seem silly.

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:00:46 +0200
--------
jacqui{JB} wrote:
> I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in
> Vienna.

It looks to me like a very "relaxed" interpretation of a "Erdapfelgulasch", 
but with a mushroom sauce, rather than the paprika. Tim.

============================

From: Margaret Suran 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:35:01 -0400
--------
Tim wrote:
> It looks to me like a very "relaxed" interpretation of a "Erdapfelgulasch",
> but with a mushroom sauce, rather than the paprika. Tim

What memories "Erdaepfelgulasch" bring back.  That's the Austrian name,
the Germans say Kartoffelgulasch.   And who was never so broke that
he/she didn't have to feed six or more for dinner and made a large pot
of Erdaepfelgulasch with a huge amount of potatoes and onions and only
one pair (two) of frankfurters.  The cucumber salad on the side made up
for the lack of meat in the dish.  :o)  Marillenknoedel or
Zwetschkenknoedel for dessert; cheap and filling.  

============================

From: Tim 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:04:03 +0200
--------
Margaret Suran wrote:
> What memories "Erdaepfelgulasch" bring back.  That's the Austrian name,
> the Germans say Kartoffelgulasch.   And who was never so broke that
> he/she didn't have to feed six or more for dinner and made a large pot
> of Erdaepfelgulasch with a huge amount of potatoes and onions and only
> one pair (two) of frankfurters.

It's still fairly common, but to be found only really in the more 'rustic' 
restaurants.

> The cucumber salad on the side made up
> for the lack of meat in the dish.  :o)  Marillenknoedel or
> Zwetschkenknoedel for dessert; cheap and filling.

Or a whole Germkn÷del. The mind boggles, as would th estomach afterwards.  
;-)


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