Boiled: Vienna Potatoes

Subject: Vienna Potatoes
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
From: Jimmy Tango (fatbusters at ridethesnake.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:01:54 GMT
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Potatoes enough for family
1 10 1/2 oz can cream of mushroom soup
1 tsp onion, minced
1 tsp Worcestershire sauce
1 4 oz can tiny Vienna sausages

Boil potatoes until done or use canned potatoes. Drain off liquid. Stir in rest of ingredients. Heat until bubbly and serve. For a large family, increase the amount of Vienna sausages and add another can of cream of mushroom soup. Another version of this recipe is to combine all ingredients with the exception of potatoes. Serve over hot instant mashed potatoes or over toast or hot biscuits.
From: jacqui{JB} (shining_one_whMUNGE at MEhotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 08:44:18 +0200
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I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in Vienna.
From: Steve J. (ssj at not_a_real_address.nett)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 07:17:09 -0700
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jacqui{JB} wrote:
> I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in
> Vienna.

Do they offer Vienna sausages in Vienna? It would seem a travesty if not.
From: sackv at uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:40:07 +0200
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Steve J. wrote:
> Do they offer Vienna sausages in Vienna? It would seem a travesty if
> not.

In Vienna, they call 'em Frankfurter. In Frankfurt, they call 'em Wiener.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:51:43 -0600
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Victor Sack wrote:
> In Vienna, they call 'em Frankfurter. In Frankfurt, they call 'em
> Wiener.

But Victor, the little sausages referred to (yes, for once I do know what those are) probably don't meet EU/EA definitions for either meat or sausages!

'Frankfurter' and 'Wiener' sausages are not related to the canned travesty other than vaguely by shape LOL!
From: sackv at uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:30:27 +0200
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Arri London wrote:
> 'Frankfurter' and 'Wiener' sausages are not related to the
> canned travesty other than vaguely by shape LOL!

Heh! The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in natural casings. No circumcision for sausages! On the other hand, I did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas. Also, there are jarred sausages in brine (mostly Bockwürste) here, too. They are always in natural casings and can be good.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:49:19 -0600
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Heh! The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in
> natural casings. No circumcision for sausages! On the other hand, I
> did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas. Also, there
> are jarred sausages in brine (mostly Bockwürste) here, too. They are
> always in natural casings and can be good.

LOL! I used to buy those jarred sausages in London sometimes. Not bad and they were quite cheap. Although my favourite cheap sausages were always the Herta frankfurters.

There are some good hot dogs to be had in the US, but most of the supermarket ones are dismal.
From: sackv at uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:35:09 +0200
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Arri London wrote:
> Although my
> favourite cheap sausages were always the Herta frankfurters.

I don't think I've seen them here. There are quite a few different Herta sausages here, but unfortunately not their great garlic ones. They seem to be marketed in France only. :-(
From: Alan Zelt (alzelt at worldnet.att.net)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:58:42 GMT
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Heh! The real travesty are those skinless ones or the ones not in
> natural casings. No circumcision for sausages! On the other hand, I
> did have some good hot dogs in natural casings in Texas. Also, there
> are jarred sausages in brine (mostly Bockwürste) here, too. They are
> always in natural casings and can be good.

Sigh. This discussion got me boiled up thinking about coming home after a few days on the Prairie with whatshisname, oh yeah, Harry. I so very much wanted to bring back some really good pork products. But, what with our border Nazis looking for terrorists and mad cows, I figured they would have thought that I was trying to poison all people in Washington if I brought back some sausage.

Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the Box. Am I missing something?
From: sackv at uni-duesseldorf.de (Victor Sack)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:35:11 +0200
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Sigh. This discussion got me boiled up thinking about coming home after
> a few days on the Prairie with whatshisname, oh yeah, Harry. I so very
> much wanted to bring back some really good pork products. But, what with
> our border Nazis looking for terrorists and mad cows, I figured they
> would have thought that I was trying to poison all people in Washington
> if I brought back some sausage.

I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death. In any case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders... Happily, there seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically engineered...
From: Alan Zelt (alzelt at worldnet.att.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 02:18:21 GMT
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Victor Sack wrote:
> I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in
> imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death. In any
> case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no
> wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders... Happily, there
> seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American
> food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically
> engineered...

The one foodstuff that I usually bring accross if coming late May is Copper River salmon.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:02:11 +0200
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Victor Sack wrote:
> I, too, wonder what it is that is supposed to be so dangerous in
> imported sausages that have been cooked or smoked to death. In any
> case, a fair amount is surely smuggled in with some regularity... no
> wonder with so long Canadian and Mexican borders... Happily, there
> seems to be no problem for any individual bringing most any American
> food to Europe, even if it happens to have been genetically
> engineered...

If it's properly processed (ie really well cooked) then there is normally little problem, it's the occasions where the foofdstuff is raw or just 'done a bit' which can harbour diseases. AS I said, note the foot and mouth disease outbreak in the UK caused by just such an incident (iirc).
From: Alan Zelt (alzelt at worldnet.att.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:54:46 GMT
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Tim wrote:
> If it's properly processed (ie really well cooked) then there is normally
> little problem, it's the occasions where the foofdstuff is raw or just
> 'done a bit' which can harbour diseases. AS I said, note the foot and mouth
> disease outbreak in the UK caused by just such an incident (iirc).

Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.
From: Benzol (benzol at arcom.com.au)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:51:15 +0930
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Its not the potato its the soil on pototo. Sausages that are raw and have been smoked are not necessarily cooked. Therefore the meat may still be raw in part and able to carry disease.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:11:23 +0200
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Benzol wrote:
> Its not the potato its the soil on pototo.

And plants are controled as well, for example the introducion of colorado beetle onto the European mainland...."but i'm only bringing a plant for my granny's garden". Tim.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:07:06 +0200
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

Yes, that as well, but also the fact that the food was contaminated and imported from India, where it's endemic. (unless the story's changed since I last heard), then fed to pigs in the swill. But you don't actually have to feed the animals the infectious food, it's good enough for the farm worker to leave his half-eaten sausage sarnie around the animals for a bit - close contact may well be enough.

And feeding waste food to pigs is common paractice, whether right or wrong. Do people feed animal parts to sheep anymore in the UK? Because quite a few of them were slaughtered too. But, as you have seen from the outbreak, that you only need *one* case to spread through the whole country like wildfire. There will always be people breaking regulations by feeding the odd bit of swill to a cow, we don't need thousands of other people breaking regualtions by bringing (potentially) infected food, soil or plants in.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:18:26 -0600
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Tim wrote:

> Yes, that as well, but also the fact that the food was contaminated and
> imported from India, where it's endemic. (unless the story's changed since
> I last heard), then fed to pigs in the swill. But you don't actually have
> to feed the animals the infectious food, it's good enough for the farm
> worker to leave his half-eaten sausage sarnie around the animals for a bit -
> close contact may well be enough.

Imported illegally. mind you.

> And feeding waste food to pigs is common paractice, whether right or wrong.
> Do people feed animal parts to sheep anymore in the UK?

Not legally they don't. The practice was banned back in the 80s. That same practice was only banned in the US less than five years ago.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:00:54 +0200
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Arri London wrote:
> Imported illegally. mind you.

I thought it was supposedly traced to some infected meat imported (illegally of course, and this is the point isn't it?) from India and thrown out from a chinese restaurant. Of course the dtory may have changed since then.

Exactly, using the same logic as people saying "I don't care about the regulations, I'm going to bring my sausages in anyway" isn't it?
From: maxine in ri (weedfam at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:03:03 -0400
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

I thought that was bovine spongiform encephalitis aka mad cow disease. Foot & mouth is soil-born. Article in this month's Scientific American mentions that one outbreak of F&M in England was traced to a dust cloud from Northern Africa.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:02:59 +0200
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maxine in ri wrote:
> I thought that was bovine spongiform encephalitis aka mad cow disease.
> Foot & mouth is soil-born. Article in this month's Scientific American
> mentions that one outbreak of F&M in England was traced to a
> dust cloud from Northern Africa.

Yes, I think Arri's gettign confused, the FMD virus wasn't in the feed as such - rather in a small contaminant -it only needs one sausage, or half a pork chop...., and it can be carried via poorly treated meat products. Hence the regulations.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:44:00 -0600
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Tim wrote:
> Yes, I think Arri's gettign confused, the FMD virus wasn't in the feed as
> such - rather in a small contaminant -it only needs one sausage, or half a
> pork chop...., and it can be carried via poorly treated meat products.
> Hence the regulations.

I wasn't the slightest bit confused. The feed was contaminated by illegally imported raw meat, apparently known to be contaminated at source.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:54:21 +0200
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Arri London wrote:
> I wasn't the slightest bit confused. The feed was
> contaminated by illegally imported raw meat, apparently
> known to be contaminated at source.

Is it still the story that it was from some thrown-away (human)food leftovers? Imported meat product from India, via a chinese restaurant? That's the last story I can remember. Was it known to be infected at the time? Or later found to be have been infected? If it was anything like that, then that is the whole point of stopping people bringing certain foodstuffs and plants into the country. Which was the bone of contention of this part of the thread, wasn't it? You can't 100% stop people feeding the wrong things to animals, just as you can't stop people 100% from bringing certain products over borders, but you have to try, and regualtions that operate at 2 points is surely better than just at one.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:36:36 -0600
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Tim wrote:

> Is it still the story that it was from some thrown-away (human)food left-
> overs? Imported meat product from India, via a chinese restaurant? That's
> the last story I can remember. Was it known to be infected at the time? Or
> later found to be have been infected?

I'd have to look up the details again. At one point, the farmer who bought the waste was thought to have known it was contaminated.

> If it was anything like that, then that is the whole point of stopping
> people bringing certain foodstuffs and plants into the country. Which was
> the bone of contention of this part of the thread, wasn't it?

But is isn't the same thing at all is it?

The Chinese restaurant imported raw meat illegally through illegal channels and sold it on illegally. That is hardly the same as someone bringing in (for their own consumptions) cured sausages manufactured in inspected facilities bought in supermarkets which must also pass inspections. Do you really think the US has never been responsible for contamination/disease elsewhere?

That's very naive. All sorts of insect pests and undesireable plant pests have been introduced into Europe from the US.

> You can't 100% stop people feeding the wrong things to animals, just as you
> can't stop people 100% from bringing certain products over borders, but you
> have to try, and regualtions that operate at 2 points is surely better than
> just at one.

But the regulations never address such issues do they?

Making me a criminal for bringing in clean foods from regulated sources won't stop introduction of pests in either direction.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:58:33 +0200
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Arri London wrote:

> But is isn't the same thing at all is it? The Chinese restaurant imported
> raw meat illegally through
> illegal channels and sold it on illegally. That is hardly
> the same as someone bringing in (for their own consumptions)
> cured sausages manufactured in inspected facilities bought
> in supermarkets which must also pass inspections.

I think it is.

> Do you really think the US has never been responsible for
> contamination/disease elsewhere?
> That's very naive.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I think that? That's very bad reading and comprehension.

> All sorts of insect pests and
> undesireable plant pests have been introduced into Europe
> from the US.

Of course. And the other way around and in all other directions too. Despite some dramatic failiures, there are regulations (often broken by people who think they know better, or just couldn't care less) to try and stop this sort of thing happening too frequently. Flushing of ships' tanks outside coastal waters for example, controll of imported foodstuffs, plants and animals (colorado beetle, rabies and grey squirrels anyone?). Why are individuals less guilty of similar crimes than the captain of a ship or import firm?

> But the regulations never address such issues do they?
> Making me a criminal for bringing in clean foods from
> regulated sources won't stop introduction of pests in either
> direction.

Yes they do. Or how would you like them to address the problem? Test every meat sandwich that's brought in? What about the people who are still going to say "I'm not declaring it, it's only a sandwhich". Problem remains. It's making you a criminal for bringing potentially dangerous foods.....just as a registered importer would.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:16:49 -0600
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Foot and mouth disease was not caused by raw or slightly done meat. It
> was caused by greedy people who fed animal parts to their livestock.

And the feed was imported illegally.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:56:16 +0200
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese
> from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they
> don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and
> Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the
> Box. Am I missing something?

What you're missing is that the regulations aren't there to protect *you* from E. coli infections or whatever, they're there to stop the import of infectious diseases for the livestock or crops - such as TB, FMD and so on. And there'S a political drive as well, of course to protect one's own producers. But that's the same everywhere.Potentiall disease carrying raw food, as opposed to sterilised, no-danger-to-the-livestock processed food. Makes sense really. You saw what happened withe the last outbreak of FMD in the UK.
From: Arri London (biotech at ic.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:21:20 -0600
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Alan Zelt wrote:
> Gets me to wondering. I am not allowed to bring back unpasturized cheese
> from France, not to mention great hams from Spain. All because they
> don't want Americans to become ill from eating vile European and
> Canadian food. Yet, it is perfectly ok to get ecoli from Jack in the
> Box. Am I missing something?

Nope. It's utterly unpatriotic to become sick from 'foreign' organisms. Only homegrown ones are good enough.

The fears of infection from 'foreign' organisms must be hyped up to protect American agriculture from outsiders. Of course there would be occasional slipups if those delicious goodie were allowed in legally. Given the magnitude of the 'smuggling' that goes on and the lack of vicious outbreaks of anything but domestic illnesses, it does seem silly.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:00:46 +0200
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jacqui{JB} wrote:
> I have to say, I haven't seen anything like this when I've been in
> Vienna.

It looks to me like a very "relaxed" interpretation of a "Erdapfelgulasch", but with a mushroom sauce, rather than the paprika. Tim.
From: Margaret Suran (msuran at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:35:01 -0400
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Tim wrote:
> It looks to me like a very "relaxed" interpretation of a "Erdapfelgulasch",
> but with a mushroom sauce, rather than the paprika. Tim

What memories "Erdaepfelgulasch" bring back. That's the Austrian name, the Germans say Kartoffelgulasch. And who was never so broke that he/she didn't have to feed six or more for dinner and made a large pot of Erdaepfelgulasch with a huge amount of potatoes and onions and only one pair (two) of frankfurters. The cucumber salad on the side made up for the lack of meat in the dish. :o) Marillenknoedel or Zwetschkenknoedel for dessert; cheap and filling.
From: Tim (timnothy.cohsalpleangmer at apk.at)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:04:03 +0200
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Margaret Suran wrote:
> What memories "Erdaepfelgulasch" bring back. That's the Austrian name,
> the Germans say Kartoffelgulasch. And who was never so broke that
> he/she didn't have to feed six or more for dinner and made a large pot
> of Erdaepfelgulasch with a huge amount of potatoes and onions and only
> one pair (two) of frankfurters.

It's still fairly common, but to be found only really in the more 'rustic' restaurants.

> The cucumber salad on the side made up
> for the lack of meat in the dish. :o) Marillenknoedel or
> Zwetschkenknoedel for dessert; cheap and filling.

Or a whole Germknödel. The mind boggles, as would th estomach afterwards. ;-)