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Subject: How to spell spuds. [Was: OT (slightly) the origin of the potato]
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking,aus.food,sci.agriculture

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From: ppnerkDELETETHIS[at]yahoo.com (Phred)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:57:23 GMT
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In article <jrhqn1p6ktvlpa0qmdb0qlpn3m87mb6unl@4ax.com>, Maestro Mysterieux wrote:
[snip]
>
>p.s.  I grew up in Illinois.  I seem to remember that, as a child in
>the 1950's, I was taught to spell it "potatoe" !  Maybe my memory
>deceives me.

Wouldn't surprise me if your memory is spot on.  We have a problem 
with illiterate bureaucrats here in Oz defining absurdities too.

For example, it has been decreed in Queensland that the official way 
to spell the traditional pawpaw is "papaw" -- presumably from some 
misguided association with "papaya".  But how the hell one gets the 
universally accepted pronunciation "pawpaw" [as in "poor-poor"] from 
"papaw" [either "pap-ore" or "pa-poor"] has me buggered.

Then, more recently, when avos became a mainstream crop we had the 
plural of "avocado" officially defined as "avocados" (out of some 
weird idea of "following the Spanish/Portuguese form" I suppose).  But 
at least the idiots haven't yet changed potatoes to potatos and 
tomatoes to tomatos, so I guess we should be thankful for small 
mercies.

Cheers, Phred.

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From: Gloria Puester <puester[at]worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:36:26 GMT
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Did you attend the same school as Dan Quayle?

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From: Gabby <Lavolanges[at]msn.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:57:57 -0400
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Puester wrote:
> Did you attend the same school as Dan Quayle?

That was my first thought when I read his post.

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From: sf <see_reply_address[at]nospam.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:21:06 -0800
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Gabby wrote:
>  That was my first thought when I read his post.
  
I think Dan Q and I had the same elementary school teacher who spent
so much time teaching us how NOT to spell potato, that "potatoe" was
burned into our memory banks.  To this day, I have to really think
about it and then use spellcheck:  potato/potatoe?  Potatoes/potatos?

============================

From: Nancy Young <qwerty[at]monmouth.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:25:34 -0500
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sf wrote
> I think Dan Q and I had the same elementary school teacher who spent
> so much time teaching us how NOT to spell potato, that "potatoe" was
> burned into our memory banks.  To this day, I have to really think
> about it and then use spellcheck:  potato/potatoe?  Potatoes/potatos?

(laugh)  You have to feel a little bad about the guy, most of us looking
at him like, are you off your rocker???!!!  There is no E on the end, you
moron!  Thanks alot Miss Emily from second grade!

============================

From: Craig Welch <craig[at]pacific.net.sg>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 11:36:00 +1000
--------
Phred wrote:

>For example, it has been decreed in Queensland that the official way 
>to spell the traditional pawpaw is "papaw" -- presumably from some 
>misguided association with "papaya".  But how the hell one gets the 
>universally accepted pronunciation "pawpaw" [as in "poor-poor"] from 
>"papaw" [either "pap-ore" or "pa-poor"] has me buggered.

'Papaw', 'pawpaw' and 'papaya' have all been in common use, and
synonymous, for decades.

>Then, more recently, when avos became a mainstream crop we had the 
>plural of "avocado" officially defined as "avocados" (out of some 
>weird idea of "following the Spanish/Portuguese form" I suppose).  But 
>at least the idiots haven't yet changed potatoes to potatos and 
>tomatoes to tomatos, so I guess we should be thankful for small 
>mercies.

'Avocados' is the correct plural. Always has been.

Who were the officials causing you such angst?

============================

From: ppnerkDELETETHIS[at]yahoo.com (Phred)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:08:47 GMT
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Craig Welch wrote:

>'Papaw', 'pawpaw' and 'papaya' have all been in common use, and
>synonymous, for decades.

You should have got up earlier.  ;-)

>'Avocados' is the correct plural. Always has been.

Says who?  I think you'll find both forms are used.  I just happen to 
think that as we have "tomatoes" and "potatoes" we should be 
consistent and use "avocadoes" here in Oz.  Why kowtow to foreign 
concepts for only one out of three?

FWIW (and to save you calling back) here's what Merriam-Webster has to 
say on this plural <http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/avocadoes>:

<quoting>
avocado
Main Entry: avocado  
Pronunciation: "-v&-'k-(")dO, "a-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -dos also -does
Etymology: modification of Spanish aguacate, from Nahuatl Ahuacatl 
avocado, testicle
</quoting>

(The etymology makes this whole trivial debate worth it.  :)

>Who were the officials causing you such angst?

Dunno if it was the F&V org bods or DPI managers.

Cheers, Phred.

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From: Bill <bigc300[at]carolina.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:11:42 -0500
--------
Phred wrote:
>Dunno if it was the F&V org bods or DPI managers.

that brings few other interesting questions to mind Phred!

cigarettes and vodka are legal drugs

marijuana and cocaine are illegal drugs

why aren't cigarettes and vodka illegal?

why is beer and wine legal?

who is the Victorianesk idiot that made these decisions?

is it not the responsibility of civilized governments to "protect" the
citizens from lack of self control and over indulgence?

does anybody know if anything is "illegal" in Amsterdam?

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From: ppnerkDELETETHIS[at]yahoo.com (Phred)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:27:19 GMT
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Bill wrote:
>does anybody know if anything is "illegal" in Amsterdam?

Probably only a bird of prey with avian influenza.

Cheers, Phred.

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From: Craig Welch <craig[at]pacific.net.sg>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:49:08 +1000
--------
Phred wrote:

>>'Avocados' is the correct plural. Always has been.
>
>Says who? 

Oxford Dictionary.

Cambridge Dictionary.

>  I think you'll find both forms are used.  I just happen to 
>think that as we have "tomatoes" and "potatoes" we should be 
>consistent and use "avocadoes" here in Oz. 

English is not based on similarities. 

>Why kowtow to foreign 
>concepts for only one out of three?

Good point. I'll come back to you a few paragraphs further down.

>FWIW (and to save you calling back) here's what Merriam-Webster has to 
>say on this plural <http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/avocadoes>:

Ah, I see you've used a foreign dictionary. I had thought you were
arguing about English usage ...Why kowtow to foreign concepts?

============================

From: Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt[at]acm.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:57:36 +1100
--------
[SNIP Craig and Phred attempting to be literate :-)]

James D. Nicoll made the oft-quoted observation: "The problem with 
defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as 
pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, 
English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them 
unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

============================

From: meee <efamaaea[at]bigpond.net.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:25:51 GMT
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Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
> James D. Nicoll made the oft-quoted observation: "The problem with
> defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as
> pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion,
> English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
> unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

ROTFL!!! Very funny and very true....maybe this argument would be even
slightly serious if you were French people speaking about French (as they
are notoriously puritanical about their language), but English borrows
enthusiastically from everyone it knows, and usually breaks what it
borrows....

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From: ppnerkDELETETHIS[at]yahoo.com (Phred)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:55:06 GMT
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Craig Welch wrote:
>Oxford Dictionary.
>
>Cambridge Dictionary.

Oxford and Cambridge are in Australia?

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From: Craig Welch <craig[at]pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:22:16 +1000
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Phred wrote:
>Oxford and Cambridge are in Australia?

No, but they help define British English which, as opposed to
American English, is largely the variant we speak here. 

============================

From: meee <efamaaea[at]bigpond.net.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:27:04 GMT
--------
Phred wrote:
> Oxford and Cambridge are in Australia?

um, they're in england, where the english language originated.....i thought
that was obvious, that's why it's called 'english' etc....

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From: aem <aem_again[at]yahoo.com>
Date: 21 Nov 2005 14:40:07 -0800
--------
Craig Welch wrote:
> ...Why kowtow to foreign concepts?

Clever.  But don't get Chinese embroiled in this discussion--it's even
less logical and less consistent than English.    -aem

============================

From: Ms Leebee <leebeeNOTHINGTOSPAMHERE[at]ozdebate.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:46:24 GMT
--------
Phred wrote:
> <quoting>
> avocado
> Main Entry: avocado
> Pronunciation: "-v&-'k-(")dO, "a-
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural -dos also -does
> Etymology: modification of Spanish aguacate, from Nahuatl Ahuacatl
> avocado, testicle
> </quoting>

testicle ? 

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From: ppnerkDELETETHIS[at]yahoo.com (Phred)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:00:36 GMT
--------
Ms Leebee wrote:
>testicle ? 

Yep.  One can see the similarity in Fuerte, for example. ;-)

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From: Ms Leebee <leebeeNOTHINGTOSPAMHERE[at]ozdebate.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 00:44:25 GMT
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Phred wrote:
> Yep.  One can see the similarity in Fuerte, for example. ;-)

Interesting ;)
Never knew that before..

Also found this:
" In the past, the avocado had a well-entrenched reputation for inducing 
sexual prowess and wasn't purchased or consumed by any person wishing to 
protect their image from slanderous assault. Growers had to sponsor a public 
relations campaign to dispel the ill-founded reputation before avocados 
became popular.
Avocados got their name from the Spanish explorers. They couldn't pronounce 
the Aztec work for the fruit, know as ahuacatl, "testicle," because of its 
shape. "


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